From time to time we may feel a little lost following our favorite story. Perhaps someone else has understood and can provide some light. Perhaps our conclusion is unique and we wish to share. In any case, there are many who prefer to avoid knowing any conclusions.
bbcdiscovery wishes to set aside a place to question and a place to answer questions. We suggest to anyone who is ‘spoiler’ averse, please avoid these pages … We are giving fair warning what to expect here.
bbcdiscovery 
Suntse, I saw nothing wrong with your answer. I liked it, too. One of the great things about Colin’s portrayal of Merlin is that there are so many layers. This was certainly a chance for two special friends to say goodbye. Put it back up!
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Joan, I liked your answer, but now I want to see yours, Suntse! 😀
That was a difficult scene to watch. *sigh*
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Okay … but Joan’s is better. I was caught up with the idea that Merlin hadn’t been able to say goodbye to Lancelot and missed him terribly, so I do believe this was their chance for a final parting. But it is even more wonderful to realize that Merlin’s intent was to bless his friend’s passage to the other side.
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Am up to series four in my rewatch so just finished up The Darkest Hour. There is so much pain on Merlin’s face right after Lancelot disappears. I don’t think it is just Lancelot’s sacrifice, but the loss of this easy and comfortable friendship. Despite everything, there is always something a bit strained between Merlin and Arthur (it’s what makes the drama), so Lancelot is a particularly hard loss. I like that they had this last private moment together in Lancelot Du Lac to have a proper parting. So, whatever Merlin’s original intention with the spell, in the end it was saying goodbye to a friend.
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Suntse, being the new kid on the magical block, I wanted to know if it is okay to start a discussion on what might have happened to Merlin after Arthur dies. I have been carrying these thoughts around with me for awhile and would love to share and get others input.
There are three elements I would like to address: Merlin’s almost certain path stemming from my take on the character of Merlin and how Colin portrayed him; A response to those Merlin fans who felt let down because the outcome wasn’t in line with what they felt the whole series was leading up to, but forgot to take into account the big picture of the Arthurian mythology and the meaning of last scene of the show; and, on a more personal note, a desire to give one plot line a little more closure and magic.
I would love to put these on the (round) table for discussion.
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It’s a lovely idea. Let me think about where to put it. I think it should have it’s own place so that the discussion can be contained to that subject matter.
Right now, I particularly agree with your understanding of the impact the authors had to take into account of the Arthurian legend(s). (Had several discussions about that in the past with ‘sorrowful’ friends.)
So, yes. Give me a day or two to think on it’s placement, and you will have a place for your discussion.
I have found when a new idea is introduced here it tends to “go off the rails” with the excitement it generates. Everyone starts to jump in immediately. (Lots of stored up energy among this group.) However, I’m asking for a little patience
So, commenters, please save your ideas until we can start with a framework in place. 😉 😉 ❤
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A Note: This is exactly why I chose WordPress rather than Tumblr for my platform … to give a place for ideas and discussion in my homage to Colin’s work.
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Will look forward to this, Suntse. After yesterday’s discussion, I was wondering if perhaps you could start a new series of posts similar to the ones from each episode. Maybe you could pick a particular moment and keep the discussion contained to it? You know we all love your work here. 💕
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More to think on … yes, a very enthusiastic group! Exactly what I was hoping for.
You know, every one of us has had the experience of being enchanted by Colin and having no place to put that energy. I’m grateful that we have it here. This place was started, just for me at first, for the same reason. I had so many thoughts about what I was seeing and feeling … and no where at all to put them. People around me just couldn’t comprehend my amazement. So, my daughter suggested the blog as a place to put my thoughts, and perhaps find a community of like-minded admirers. She helped me set it up. (Imagine a 65 year old woman starting a blog … what’s a blog, after all!) 😉 It became a real joy when you all joined in and it became more than a place to capture my thoughts about Colin, his dedication, his work, his incredible talent, it became a place to share. ❤
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Joan, please give me a bit of an idea what you have in mind. Each episode as a separate post (not like in Merlin Pages ?). I’m open to entertaining ideas. Talk to me. Maybe send me an email to ednsunny… to give you room to elaborate. Looking forward to it. Love, Suntse
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That’s great. It will give me time to compose the posts and I can copy and paste when you are ready. Check it out, I am already causing extra work for you.
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Yes, you are … how impudent !! 😉
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Jill, I don’t know if you’ve come across it during your searches on anything to do with Colin, but there is a MASSIVE amount of fanfiction out there addressing the potential possibilities of Merlin’s life after Arthur, mainly due, I imagine, to the need for the viewers to put some closure on that last episode.
Much of it goes in a direction I’m not comfortable with (Merthur), but there is some out there that is very well written, that has helped fill that emptiness that many of us were feeling. (well, me, anyway 🙂 )
Anyway, I won’t say much further as it can be left for the future potential discussion page Suntse is going to create. 🙂
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Thank you. I actually have accidentally come across a few fan fiction sites. Frankly, I’m afraid of searching any further for fear of having to wade through some of the “interesting” stories that fans have written. I’m sure that what I have to say has been said before, but I look forward to sharing my thoughts and hearing what others on this blog have to say.
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I do read a little fanfiction. About the only place I go to is Archive of Our Own (AO3). They do have ratings and a little synopsis to allow you to pick and choose. I really have no interest in modern AU (I don’t want Merlin as a pizza delivery boy or Arthur as the head of some company) nor do I go for the crossover stuff (usually I have no idea who the other characters are). A lot of times I find that the shorter one or two chapter ones are the best. There are a few brilliant ones, a lot of tedious ones (50+ chapters?) and some that are just something to read when you’re bored with everything else. The writing ability varies, too. If after a few paragraphs you think the writer needs an editor, just move on. I do find it interesting that there are a number of stories in languages I don’t even recognize. As for slash, it’s there in every fandom. It started a long time ago and you just have to decide for yourself.
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Just home from work. You all have been busy!
Jill, your plan is best, in my opinion. It reminds me of Colin preferring new characters to ones previously done. He doesn’t want another interpretation to color his own. Nor should you. Give us your thoughts fresh and new, just from your perspective. 😉
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In the newness of all this I am constantly surprised by Colin’s pure talent. I think he is a fearless actor who is willing to be completely vulnerable. Because of that he invites his audience right into the very soul of each of his characters. Sometimes this is emotional and intense. I seem to be testing the waters as to what doors I want to open in Colin’s world. When I spend time accessing sites where others express their ideas of Colin through fan fiction, blogs or fan videos, it is more like a filtered version of Colin through the perception of others who see Colin in a very different way then I do. For me this takes away from the specialness.
That’s why I like this space so much. You are a small group of like-minded people who admire and respect Colin Morgan. And Suntse, I sense that you make sure that this stays a safe place from those who are not respectful and want to turn Colin into an object…You help maintain the magic. I especially like that I no longer have to walk through the minefield of crazy fandom just to enjoy this little journey.
So, I am very content just hanging out on this playground and avoiding most of the others. Here I can enjoy what you alI have to say. And, I can honestly share my thoughts and feelings with you because I sure as heck can’t share them with anyone else I know.
By the way, I am laughing at myself for being so intense here… nothing my real world friends ever see from me. If you knew me better, you would find that I am usually a lighthearted person who loves to laugh. So, I hope you don’t think me too strange for opening up like this.
All that being said, I am really enjoying the Merlin spell translation site. What a fun page. Old English…yet another path to check out. 🙂
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Perhaps you could recommend one or two of your favorites. I feel like there are so many, many options to pursue to enjoy Colin’s work, I’m not quite sure I would have time for fan fiction, too.
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I went over to AO3, and sure enough, there is a very short one called ‘A Night Full Of Stars.’ Warning: it will not make you feel any better about the ending of Merlin! Tissues may be in order. (And the other girls know I’m not one to tear up much). The author is listed as archeologist_d. I don’t know if it’s the same person who posts the pictures from the Merlin set. I’m also reading one called “I Don’t Know What I Would Have Done.” It’s four chapters and I haven’t finished it yet but it seems pretty good. Best thing is just go to their Merlin pages (there are a lot of them) and after a while you start to recognize what appeals to you. Really, I don’t read a lot of fanfic but now and then it’s nice.
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By request, I am posting this here to be added to the new section. Hope I got that right. 🙂
To restate: “There are three elements I would like to address: Merlin’s almost certain path stemming from my take on the character of Merlin and how Colin portrayed him; A response to those Merlin fans who felt let down because the outcome wasn’t in line with what they felt the whole series was leading up to, but forgot to take into account the big picture of the Arthurian mythology and the meaning of last scene of the show; and, on a more personal note, a desire to give one plot line a little more closure and magic.”
I’m only going to post one at a time because I don’t want to overwhelm. And, the second is more thought-provoking (at least for me) and going to take some time for me to compose. I also want to add that my intention is not to throw up a bunch of futures to see what sticks. The three ideas about Merlin’s path do not contradict one another.
First, did Merlin stay in Camelot? The last episode suggests that he might not have. The fact that we did not see him in the great hall with the others, in the second to last scene, was a clue. However, one of Merlin’s strongest virtues is his loyalty to his friends. I believe that he would never abandon those who Arthur loved most…he would never have caused them to have to deal with yet another loss. Until those who Arthur and Merlin loved passed on, he would have stayed by their side. And wouldn’t he have wanted to be close to his last connections to Arthur? In some ways it may have been difficult for him to remain, but we have seen in the past that even great emotional pain does not get in the way of his sense of duty. When you watch scenes where Merlin struggles with his own sadness, Colin has this wonderful ability to show Merlin as staying present in each moment for those around him. He does not try and escape emotionally. He juggles his own pain with his care for others. I’ve especially noticed this when he is with those who are dying, which I think could be a whole other conversation.
I see Merlin’s absence in the great hall scene as a metaphor for him not really being a part of that world because of who he is and his destiny. He is truly alone in that sense. And I believe that even though peace was restored to Camelot, magic was not…and that will be part of the second post.
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okay, Jill, we are ready to begin.
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The Huntsman: Winter’s War … What can I say? I left the theatre having a laugh at myself for letting my desire to see Colin again on BIG screen subject me to 20 minutes of violent, noisy previews … none of which were remotely interesting to me. Was there a payoff?: Let me say it this way. Whoever mentioned that Colin had only 10 minutes of screen time was outrageously exaggerating. If you miss this film, dry your tears … unless this genre is of particular interest to you … but not for Colin’s participation,
It is my guess that Colin had not more than 1.5 minutes of screen time. That’s it! That’s ALL of it!
The early scene: He smiles at Freya from across the room, surrounded by others of the Court. (You have already seen this picture, and he does look handsome. (25 seconds)
The scene where he is found at the baby’s cradle covered in dirt and smoke. His only line, “I had no choice.” ( Would love to have a better picture of him in this scene; he looked quite different. It was possible to wonder if this was Colin, but the camera did not linger more than 30 seconds.)
The final Colin scene: It was confusing to understand why he was rising from a prone position, his back to the camera, after which seen only in profile, in a mist, holding a torch, (I think). No explanation of any kind. I understood the implication, but story line not forthcoming. (30 seconds)
These are estimated, of course. I thought about making this a post … not sure yet what to do with it. Wanted you all to have an idea of what you are in for if you go out of your way to see this film for Colin’s sake. 🙂 The camera simply was not interested in his character.
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These are the kind of scenes that were probably shot independently, to be inserted in the film in chosen places. There is no interaction between his character and any other participant in the story. He did get billing though. Colin Morgan in large gold letters, at the end with the other credited actors.
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So, glad you posted about this. I saw the movie yesterday. There was something so strange about Colin’s role in this. I can’t help but wonder if there are some scenes on the cutting room floor. What bothers me the most is that you would think they would have wanted some real substance to the whole reason Freya grieved and hated the way she did. And what better way to do that then to show a bit of the love story between her and the Duke. Even 10 minutes of Colin working his acting magic would have brought so much more to the heart break of Freya. Instead, they decided to do it with narration. It made no sense. Even at the end when Freya has a vision of herself and the child. Why the heck wouldn’t the Duke have been in that vision?
Very interesting, your thoughts that the scenes could have been inserted. Yes, you are correct. Perhaps it was all an afterthought. I’d be curious what others think.
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I completely agree. They lost a lot by not giving this part of the story more substance. And I, too, was surprised The Duke was not in the vision with Freya and their baby. ❤
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I chose, after reading many comments and reviews on Twitter and tumblr, to not go out of my way to see it. I did have every intention of going, but after I heard how minuscule his part was, and the fact that I was severely disappointed in his small role in Legend, I decided to save myself the hassle. I’ll watch it on DVD with full knowledge of what to expect. 🙂
Interestingly, someone on tumblr has created a compilation of his scenes in The Huntsman and has posted it on Google Play. I didn’t download it, but I did watch it. The whole video is 3 minutes and 59 seconds, of which at least 3 minutes and 58 seconds is Freya running towards the burning castle and stuff.
I know it is Colin is the burning scene, but what was odd is that the voice, particularly the second time he says “I had no choice” doesn’t sound like him.
I gather that the part where you see The Duke handed a torch, is Raveena bewitching? convincing? him that it was right thing to do…? I don’t know, but it’s odd that they wouldn’t clarify that in the movie.
Oh well…it was their loss to not have taken full advantage of Colin’s acting skills to further the backstory of him and Freya. Unfortunately, it is also the loss of other viewers who may not be fully aware of Colin’s gifts…they also missed out.
Thanks GOD TLATD is on it’s way soon…even though we will be required to watch it online, as it’s not being shown here until later in the year, apparently. Oh well…I did it with Humans; I will do it again with TLATD and anything else Colin is involved, if necessary. 🙂
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It is peculiar that Raveena’s bewitching the Duke was not clearer. In fact, the footage was actually difficult to see. It is almost as if Colin’s scenes were not finished.
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I only deduced that Ravenna bewitched The Duke, because of the way she sort of waved her hand over him (I could digress, but I won’t), and the sleepwalk quality of the character. And the fact that I can’t see any other reason why he would do what he did. But I haven’t seen the movie. 🙂 Yet.
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I’m also disappointed that you guys never found out what his actual name was! “The Duke” is so formal! I’m sure that not what Freya called him when they were busy creating that beautiful baby girl. 🙂
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I think we can all pretty much agree that “The Living and the Dead” and “Waiting for You” can’t come soon enough. Watching Colin act is what we love and, for me, both “Legend” and “The Huntsman” were more of a frustration than an enjoyment.
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“I’m also disappointed that you guys never found out what his actual name was! “The Duke” is so formal! I’m sure that not what Freya called him when they were busy creating that beautiful baby girl.”
Bob
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“I’d like to introduce you to the Duke of Blackwood. Or Bob, as he’s known to his intimate friends.”
Oh. perfect. 😛
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The Living and The Dead: Dimensions of Time and Space, and a Stunner ending/beginning.
What can I say? I was left gobsmacked … not an American expression, but the only one I can think of that describes where the last scene of the last episode left me.. It’s difficult to express; it’s even more difficult to wrap one’s head around all the strings that bound this story together. And it’s more than an assault on logic; it’s the disintegration of logic as we currently know it, the assumptions our minds make given the (only) information that has been revealed to us at any given point. Information that deliberately leads us in conflicting directions … which is exactly the story-teller’s intention.
Of course, we will be revisiting time and again. The first viewing is not enough. I must say here that there were scenes where Colin was so stunningly beautiful, he took up the screen, and one only wanted to linger there and try to embed it in our memory forever.
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This may end up as a post, but only after the Spoiler label can be removed.
Graham Norton’s comparison of TLATD to M. Night Shyamalan’s work was the closest we can get to Ashley Pharoah’s creation. I remember having seen The Sixth Sense in the theatre the first time with my husband and grandson, we hadn’t gone six blocks before we turned around and re-entered the theatre to see it again and try to find the clues that would lead us to the ending. Suntse
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If you left your possible post as it is written above, you could very well post it…it isn’t a spoiler in itself. Nothing is really given away, other than the fact that there is something in the last scene that blows the viewers’ minds. 🙂 It blew mine. It’s funny…the story could very well have been left at a happy couple settled in the country, caring for their child, running their farm. But no…Ashley had to take a very large spanner and toss it into the machine. 🙂
I am on my second viewing – only on episode 2 so far.
I also agree with your comment about Colin. ❤ Stunning – breath-hitching – but more than just physically. His performance in E6 put me in awe of his talent.
And yes…I also watched The Sixth Sense twice in quick succession (although not the same day!), for the same reason. "How could I have missed that??"
I want to chat more about TLATD, but time is getting away with me this morning. Later for sure!
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Absolutely true! Colin’s performance was breathtaking. I comment on his physicality so seldom, this time I wanted to acknowledge how it struck me. Performance discussion is coming, knocked the wind from me, need another viewing, or two, to put my thoughts in order before I launch into that one. My first thought was to discuss the series generally. This man is the most amazing actor of this generation, no question!
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Interestingly – and I say this knowing it will be unpopular – I was underwhelmed with Colin’s performance in E1. Not that he wasn’t good – he always is – but in E1, he was just another actor performing a role, with all the other actors performing their roles. I felt this on my first watch, but didn’t say it out loud because it felt sacrilegious. 🙂 On my second watch, I realized why I felt that way. Colin has nothing to truly sink his teeth into emotionally in that episode. E1 is just setting up the evolving story, with the end the hook that keeps us invested. He only gets better as the show moves forward, with the culmination in E6, with an awards-worthy, heart-wrenching performance that I will never forget, and look forward to seeing again and again.
I recently came across a very unfavourable review of TLATD…it was a radio show. They did not like it and slammed several aspects from Colin’s lackluster performance to the non-attention to historical detail. I was shocked, actually. And I wonder now if they ever went beyond Episode 1. I truly hope they do, because they will surely eat their words.
Must go. Look forward to chatting more on this. 🙂
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Thank you, Jen, for encouraging me to post this now. I rather like how it turned out.
As for leaving a happy couple ending, it is improbable that Colin would have been interested. It has seemed to me, from the beginning, yes, even from Merlin, and especially his stage plays before, that this young actor’s pull to a character rests in its complexity, and no easy answers. I have written more on this in years past, and may bring some of that forward now that he is saying it publicly himself.
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The disclaimer included in what I’m about to say is that we really don’t truly know what’s in Colin’s mind, except for the little tiny bits and pieces he slowly releases over time, but…I feel that if it had been left at the “traditional happy ending”, the role still would have been daunting (<— his word 🙂 ) enough to make it a very worthy challenge for him. He is attracted to the darkness in his characters, and the spiral downwards into despair that Nathan experiences would have been more than enough to entice him to bring Nathan to life. He did say that it was the twist at the end of the first episode when he read it that attracted him to the role, and I think he would have still done it even if the story hadn't concluded with that cute little twist at the end…there was enough happening in between those two points that he could sink his teeth into. 🙂
On another point all together, don't you love that they filmed some of it in Puzzlewood! You could almost recognize locations from Merlin! I would love to go there. 🙂
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You know, I do not disagree with you Jen. In the years ahead we may yet see him take on a complex character who has a traditional happy ending, all loose ends neatly tied up.
In fact, I was rather surprised when the story went back to an idyllic setting. Happy couple, happy family … and then the utter shock at the end bringing us up abruptly with more questions than answers. We were led to settle in to a comfortable, familiar setting, leaving us vulnerable to the sudden thunderbolt and its after effects.
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Pretty amazing, huh? I have a strange personality quirk. Often things don’t effect me until after the fact and this happened here. First off, this is really the first new show of Colin’s I have seen since last October and November when I pretty much binge watched everything he had ever done. I was surprised that I actually had to get used to Nathan. But now that I have seen the show a few times I love this character and his journey.
Yes, yes re the beauty of Colin in so many scenes.
I really wasn’t scared when I watched the show. I think it had to do more with just enjoying Colin’s performance so much that I really was’t paying attention to whether it was scary. The only exception to that was episode five. That was a perfect old fashioned ghost story and I found myself giggling nervously throughout the episode, because I love that kind of stuff. I think I will watch that one on Halloween.
Oddly the first time I saw TLATD the problem I had with Colin’s performance was the opposite of others. I felt his performance was too big in the end. But that really wasn’t the case. What happened was that I am so used to Colin being able to express emotion in the subtlest of ways that I was startled by this. So, that was really me and I think it is an almost perfect performance. Also, Colin’s scenes with the vicar and several other scenes kind of reminded me of someone doing Shakespeare. It had to do with the cadence of his lines. It made me wonder what it would be like to see him play Hamlet. My favorite part of the mad bits was that he would sound perfectly normal and then a little crazy and then grief stricken. I loved that. I have never seen madness done quite that way and it would make perfect sense. He wasn’t really insane, it was more that he was struggling with the insanity of what was happening to him…and mixed with grief he didn’t know how to handle it.
There is so much to comment on about this show and I hope as we re-watch it we can focus on specific scenes and moments.
I would like to add one thing. I kind of wish they hadn’t done that twist at the end and had spent that time on showing their happy life together. I really see this as one series. And, I wonder how Colin feels about this. It isn’t like Leo where there is so much more to explore about his story, life and relationships. Leo is damaged and there is so much room for growth and change. Nathan’s journey had a very definitive beginning, middle, and end. I mean where do they go from here? He really did over come the damaged part of himself, with Charlotte’s help. If they do more, I suspect it will be more plot driven than character driven. That being said, I was really going to stick to that until I heard Charlotte mention the back story of how Nathan and Charlotte met. And it was then that I thought if they told the story of his first wife’s death and how he and Charlotte met, that would be amazing. But I would be just as happy for this to be it and to look forward to Colin’s other roles.
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Drew, I enjoyed reading your comments. There are two which I would like to highlight:
1) favorite part of the mad bits was that he would sound perfectly normal and then a little crazy and then grief stricken. I loved that. …. Manic behavior is very much like that, erratically moving from over-the-top to what at least appears rational … and back again. And I agree, Colin captured it perfectly, along with the very strange smile that had hints of madness behind it.
2) I thought if they told the story of his first wife’s death and how he and Charlotte met, that would be amazing. …. I have the thought that a second season could be about Nathan and Charlotte with the idea, already planted, that he might have killed his wife, Olivia or Charlotte? He is seen in the bed alone. If Olivia, we would spend the whole time worrying about Charlotte’s safety, and wondering if her love could overcome his madness after all. If Charlotte, it is unimaginable. Any thoughts?
An Additional comment …
Second time through, I find Charlotte was indeed in the bed beside him at the end. So, it must have been Olivia to whom they were referring. So, in a second series, will Charlotte be okay? Does his insanity resurface? Have to admit, this one has really gotten into my head; a mesmerizing story that is impossible to put down.
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I’m hoping here we can mentions as many spoilers as we wish. But let me know, if that is not the case.
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Yes, Drew. It is the intent of the Spoilers Chat that we don’t have to worry about what we say. The name of the Thread is intended to warn those who don’t want to read spoilers so they can avoid that particular Thread. Feel free to mention what you wish. Suntse 🙂
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Has anyone else found this “scarier” the second time through? I find the tension is building even more for me when some initial questions have been answered, or partially answered, and I have more understanding of where the story is going.
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I just never found it scary, but I really think it has to do with finally seeing Colin in something new that I was just focused on that. The 5th episode was a fun kind of scary.
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I didn’t find it scary either, Drew, not the first time … more unsettling. Oddly, this time, it’s rather giving me a creepy feeling, anticipating what’s coming I guess.
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Also, it is interesting, but I never had the feeling that Gabriel was going to do anything bad to Lottie. I know they set it up that way. I’m probably the wrong person to respond to this. I scare real easy, but seeing Colin and his amazing performance trumped scary.
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The first time, I found parts of it scary (watched through my fingers in a couple of places), but not horrifyingly so. Just didn’t know what was coming. And those spots I was cautious about turned out to not be all that bad. So, I suspect that the second time around, I won’t be using my fingers quite so much. 🙂 I certainly did not find the first episode scary at all, unlike many who have posted on Twitter that they did.
I have so far only watched the first two episodes twice. Hopefully I’ll be able to find time to watch the next four again in the next couple of days, starting with E3 tonight.
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Is there anything you questioned the first time through, that became more clear in subsequent viewings?
Like Drew, I was really wrapped up in watching Colin and the general story line. Noticed many more details the second time.
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I certainly paid more attention to the modern-type events, but I never even realized that the book was something from the future. Again, my focus must have been on something else. 🙂
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I think we would not have realized what the book was until the last episode. Maybe someone out there put it together from Ep 01, but it wasn’t me! 🙂 . The same with the vapor trail … can’t say I even paid much attention to it. Sneaky little things like that … easier to pick up on after we know the whole story (or at least as much of it as we now ‘think’ we know!) 🙂
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Suntse, I am just so glad that you have been able to watch the whole show!!!!
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You’re very sweet … it is really a head scratcher … I’m enjoying new discoveries the second time through!
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One question I have is has the timeline been changed? Clearly this is a world where, for ghosts, there is no time barrier. I think watching the series several times has impressed on me how they do play with time in so many scenes, including where Nathan is drugged. But how does one time break into the other for the living? It seems to be caused by the ghosts.
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Well, so far, there isn’t anyone in the whole series who is living 😀 Except, maybe (and who is sure of anything at this point?) except maybe the people at the Ouija Board in the last scene.
I’m thinking of it as an alternate universe where all the happenings in that location, Shepzoy, over centuries, have all been held in a kind of limbo-like, energy field, where they pass over and through each other, sometimes encountering each other in the same space and time, and sometimes not. These entities (ghosts) are from Nathan’s perspective, and can be either in his distant past or in his far future. And that perspective follows his blood-line, his own genetic history.
Too far out, do you think?
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Not too far out at all. I like that theory. It is interesting. I suspect, unless we hear from Ashley, we won’t really know the big picture unless there are more episodes.
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That is an interesting theory, Suntse. We’ll probably not know until we get to see Series 2. 🙂 There was a connection between Lara and Nathan (and Charlotte), but will there be with other characters in the ghostly time frame?
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Unfortunately (I wish I hadn’t), before I watched, I read a synopsis by Ashley that I found on Tumblr. In that synopsis, he referred to plane trails, car light, and other phenomena. As soon as I read that, I stopped and read no more and was severely pissed off at myself for even seeing that much! You know how much I hate spoilers, even though he didn’t indicate when these things would occur.
So, I was fully aware of what I was seeing when it happened…the plane trail, for example, and I knew the “book of light” was either a cellphone or an iPad, as much as the appearance of the modern girl at the end of E1 was a bit of a shocker. I did think the girl at the end was a modern version of Charlotte, they looked so alike at first. But, as we found out, it wasn’t Charlotte at all. But her child was named Lottie. 🙂 I thought that was cleverly done. 🙂
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I also knew what the car lights were when they came at Nathan in E2. I don’t think I would have made the connection until the end E6 if I hadn’t read what I had.
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I think I kind of ruined the whole story for myself. I really was so excited to see Colin again that the story kind of became secondary. I won’t do that again. It had just been such long wait that it was all about his performance and really not about anything else.
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I was also excited to see Colin again…weren’t we all? But I don’t think that ruined anything for me. However, I think that in my second watch, I will (and have so far) definitely be focusing more on the intricacies of the story. 🙂 Maybe on my third watch, I’ll just watch Colin. ❤
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Those were the fun bits to discover, I’m sorry you were ‘ready’ for them the first time through!
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(rambles on)
The other thing I found interesting, and look forward to seeing again in my rewatch, are the time differences between what Lara is seeing and what Nathan is seeing. When she yells at him to stop, he sees that at a different juncture in his life than she does. Same as when her car is coming at him. That’s unique in the world of ghost stories that we’re familiar with. When that was revealed in E6, it all started to come together. 🙂
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Yes, many scenes reflect that time has no barriers.
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Agreed, that was exactly the impetus for writing: The Living and The Dead .. Questioning Dimensions of Time and Space.
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Drew, I think when you start re-watching it, you will get caught up in the story, even if you weren’t the first time. Let us know how it goes. 🙂
I am only on Ep 03 of my re-watch. With this nice long week-end, I expect to take my time savoring it all. (no work for me on Monday!!) But I do get excited with the new discoveries, the moments where we can say “AHA” so that’s what happened, that’s how it happened, it does make sense after all! Kinda thrilling to be tricked a little!
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Friends … I think I must give up on worrying about spoilers in the posts. This thing with the timing is just too difficult! By now, any serious Colin fan has seen the series. Unfortunate that the U.S. and Canadian general audiences haven’t been introduced to it yet, but we cannot keep our silence until November. That’s just asking the impossible!! What do you think ???
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I’m not sure I understand. I thought spoilers were already fine in this area.
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They are fine here, Drew, but I was thinking of the regular postings.
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If you’re talking about your actual blog posts, rather than our conversations here, then I don’t think you have to worry. Maybe just add a spoiler disclaimer at the beginning, such as “Contains major/minor spoilers for Eposide 6 – read at your own risk” or something similar. Then it’s up to your readers to choose to go further. 🙂
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Having said that, I have noticed that there are really very few spoilers out there, particularly on Twitter. Nobody has mentioned anything specifically and in detail about the end of E6 that I’ve seen.
You could also choose not to reblog your posts on Twitter. That’s an option. 🙂
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Yes, I agree. I have not seen many spoilers. I think Ashley was the worst offender. 🙂 I also think there is enough to chat about without even hitting on spoilers. So, I like the idea of just putting up a spoiler disclaimer if it is for the regular post.
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Something I saw mentioned elsewhere, which went right by me at the time, were Nathan’s actions, or lack of, at the grave-site. He very lovingly brushed the dirt from Gabriel’s name and completely ignored the detritus that had attached itself to Olivia’s name. In retrospect, this casts new light on the last question asked of Nathan as well as his response.
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Oh, now I am going to have to re-watch the whole show as if Nathan really had done that.
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I just finished my 2nd re-watch of E6. It affected me even more deeply than the 1st. In spite of knowing what to expect, the effect of Nathan’s fall into full-blown psychotic behavior emerged and multiplied as beyond description. There must be an award waiting out there somewhere for this performance!
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The Living and The Dead … impressions after the first two viewings … (7/03/2016)
Lara arrives at Shepzoy, still a living person. She is drawn there to try to understand her hallucinations and brushes with insanity. She feels the need to understand where this might have originated. Her grandmother has given her some clues. So, she arrives there, a living person among the ghosts of the past. The house is empty, abandoned. She wanders the building and grounds (These are Nathan’s first encounters with her, he on one side of the veil, she on the other. But we find out later that while attempting a return to London, she saw something in the roadway that caused her to swerve and drive her car into the lake. She did not survive.
Her spirit is now bound to Shepzoy, and from Nathan’s second encounter with her throughout the remainder of the series, until the last episode, wherein she is part of the time living and part of the time after her death, her apparitions are from this alternative reality into which she has been abruptly thrown. Time has no meaning here, and there is no chronology to give us satisfaction that we understand. We are suspended in another element of earthbound time and space as though weightless in outer-space with no place to land, and no anchor to prove our own sanity.
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And here is something I would like to know. Whenever there is resolution to a spirit’s haunting, the ghost usually leaves that place and moves on to the next plane of existence. When Gabriel finally understands that his father loves him and didn’t want him to die he smiles and disappears, and Charlotte says, “He is gone.” But then we see him once again with Lara. Technically, he should have moved on. He shouldn’t be haunting anymore. So, is that the last time Nathan sees him and he now knows Gabriel will be taken care of by Lara and will move on, or will both of them continue to be a part of Shepzoy? Staying a part of Shepzoy doesn’t really make sense.
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I have no answer. However, Nathan and Charlotte are still part of Shepzoy and it’s over a hundred years since their passing. Gideon and the farm hands are still there.
Let’s suggest that logic, or suggested logic, has no place in this story. It’s one where it might be best to suspend disbelief.
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I’m not so sure that they are all still part of the farm as ghosts though. Is it some rift in time or ghosts? Maybe the only ones that can experience different times are the ghosts. Nathan seems to be the only person alive who experiences future events like car lights and contrails. The others from that time experience ghosts but not modern events. Maybe the only reason for that is that it is a ghost from the future that is connecting with him and by trying to reach him, she has opened up some door so that he can see those future events. She only attempts to contact Charlotte once.
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I’m going to respond to just one aspect of your comment, Drew. Gabriel obviously saw Lara as well before he died. He drew her picture. It’s on a solid piece of paper in amongst his other things in that box. So he saw her in the same form as Nathan did, but at a different time. Everyone is interacting on different planes. Nathan didn’t recognize Gabriel’s drawing until he saw the same thing and realized that the girl with the book of light was what Gabriel had drawn. I just realized as I read your response, that Gabriel and Nathan had seen the same thing. But at different times.
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Also, Abel North must have as well. That’s what Harriet drew on the wall, but I don’t think it was Harriet who drew that.
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OK, Suntse…do you realize you have a little yellow duckling as your header photo on this page?!?!
Just kidding…sort of. I know you’ve had it there since you started this page, but it’s funny that a little yellow duckling suddenly has a different meaning now. 🙂
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And a pretty upsetting one, at that. These ducklings will be well treated here, though. We’ll make sure of that. 😉
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Lines/Scenes that have stayed with me:
Gabriel’s response to Nathan in E6, set up with “I was hiding”. Nathan’s incredulous reply, “You didn’t want to see me?” Gabriel: “You didn’t want to see me.”
I thought this an excellent allusion to Gabriel’s possible attempts to reach his father earlier. (These were not dramatized but vaguely alluded to in this exchange). However, the Scientist in Nathan could not acknowledge and accept these attempts because they were not rooted in the Logic of his world, leaving Gabriel feeling abandoned by his father.
Do you have any comment, or any others you want to mention?
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Saved in Drafts for future post, sharing here for you. 🙂
I couldn’t help feeling that Nathan’s Great Grandfather’s story was the beginning for one or both of the following reasons.
First: Because this ‘affliction’ has carried on through the family, all the way (so far) to Lara’s mother, then Lara herself, it makes me question if Nathan’s great grandfather’s cruelty was also rooted in a type of insanity.
Second: Clarity’s curse. “You will reap what has been sown.” The phrasing suggests the beginning is embedded somewhere in the past. Perhaps Clarity knew or was close to one of the boys in the mine and is seeking vengeance against the mine owner for his disregard of the boys’ lives. Whatever the reason, I believe it is/was a curse and not a blessing … something to follow this family and their children forevermore. We should be afraid for Nathan and Charlotte’s daughter, and what form this might take. (Series 2?)
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I still have not watched for the second time, beyond E2. I must make the time and do so. I don’t want to reply to your thoughts with my own without doing that. 🙂
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So, I hope none of this is spoilery for you. This is my dilemma. Maybe I should put all of these thoughts in my draft folder and release them in November after the last episode is aired here in the U.S. I’m really torn about this … I’m not very given to keeping quiet! 🙂 😦 In addition, I’m pretty sure that by the middle of December, I won’t even remember what sparked my inquiring mind. *sigh*
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I thought that the spoiler area was okay for anything, but the blog is where you would be less likely to include spoilers, at least not without a warning.
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That is the purpose of this page, Suntse. 🙂 Spoilers. The only issue (and it’s not really an issue), is that anyone (ie: Joan and Lau) who has commented on this page will get notified of any new comments, and can read them…if they wish. But, because it’s on the spoiler page, they know that they are doing so at their own risk. 🙂 So spoil away.
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😀 yeah, I know … that’s why I made it … but still a little nervous about it sometimes. 🙂
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Jen, I have been meaning to ask you this question. While watching E1, and having already read Ashley’s spoilery comments, did you immediately realize what the vapor trail meant?
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I didn’t know what it meant; I only knew what it was. Same with the car lights in E2. I mean, it was pretty obvious what the vapour trail WAS, but I would have been unwilling to accept that it was a modern-day element in a 1890’s drama, and probably would have said what was written all over Nathan’s face, which was “WTF??” (or something similar). The car lights I probably wouldn’t have even known what they were, other than damn scary. 🙂
Because Ashley had mentioned them, I knew they were supposed to be there, but not for what purpose.
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That’s Ashley Pharoah’s trademark in a way. He challenges linear thinking based on logic, rules and rationality, and suppositions drawn from that thinking. We must be delightfully cautious of jumping to conclusions when reading/viewing Mr. Pharoah’s work. 🙂
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I really would like to see more of his work. If I ever get a chance.
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These conversational comments are so interesting I often want to re-read them. Therefore, I’m thinking of creating an Index on the main Page, “Conversations”. The best that can be done, I think, is to List the Title and the date on which the conversation starts. That, at least, would give a starting point to scroll back to. Any thoughts?
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I can see why you would want to do that, but it sounds a bit onerous to maintain. Were you thinking of listing conversations by topic (ie: Humans, TLATD, etc), or by date or by both?
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Topic, with the first comment in bold. It would only apply to our first conversation about that topic, in which most comments are already grouped together … only needing to find the first one in the group. Intermittent comments at random times wouldn’t fall into the group unless they were attached to a previous related comment that is already in the group.
This may be more for me than anyone else, but I find I would like to return to some Humans comments, etc., especially when a second season is being considered.
The Index would avoid becoming complex: Simply: TLATD … starting June 27, 2016. So if anyone wanted to return to the conversation as a matter of interest, it would be much easier to locate the beginning.
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OK…I see what you mean. I also like being able to go back and revisit conversations. I’ve actually done that with Humans, and our comments back and forth are quite entertaining to read. So whatever you chose to do, Suntse, is fine with me. 🙂
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I think this is decided. Thanks for the input. It will be much easier to put together now rather than after he has added another dozen or so to his repertoire!!
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Suntse, as I seem to be the one person on the globe who hasn’t seen TLATD, please don’t worry about spoilers. They are all over tumblr and Twitter and I follow people on both. Plus I’ve read reviews. I also read all your comments and posts. I have no problem with it and I would assume anyone else can simply avoid them if they wish. No reason to be concerned in any way. I don’t say much because I haven’t seen the series, but am obviously really looking forward to it.
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Oh, Joan! So glad to hear from you. I haven’t been concerned about the Spoiler Page so much … but the regular posts. For instance, I really wanted to post an article on E2 about Nathan’s great-great grandfather … It’s all ready to go, including artwork, but that post would include information not covered until E6. So, I am waiting. And even if we are ever careful about waiting through the 6 episodes being aired in the UK, the US is still waiting until November! (unless they are already Colin fans, in which case they have found other ways to devour it!)
So are we then to spoil the intrigue for the potential fans in the West?
And, if we wait, isn’t the initial excitement going to be dulled by the time that has expired between the two airings? (Maybe I think too much!!) 🙂
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Just put a spoiler alert at the beginning, Suntse. Then you’ve covered your butt. 🙂
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Yes, that’s true … but it’s really hard to STOP reading about something so interesting when it’s right there in front of you, even with a warning. It’s not so much about covering myself, as it is about not spoiling the intrigue for the newbies. This time and space twister is fascinating, and filled with discovery. All those little light bulbs going off are the fun of it. It’s not just about knowing and being satisfied with an answer; it’s more about opening the door to the possibilities of the unknown.
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For instance … I remember how delighted I was when the source of the lights coming at Nathan was touched upon in a later episode and thence became clear. I had sort of disregarded (forgotten) them and gotten caught up in other aspects of the story. Then … AHA!… and yet, even with that moment, the consequence of his seeing those lights raised a whole other element of intrigue to the story.
I would like to keep those little light bulbs safe for everyone … maybe that’s not possible. *sigh*
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Well, here we are in Spoilers. Such a rich story! So much to uncover, discover, and re-discover.
One of my first questions is: What is the Vantage Point? We think we are in Nathan and Charlotte’s present, but Ashley gives us a huge hint with the appearance of the Contrail. (I am reminded of the comment regarding this as an editing oversight. *chuckle*) No, this needs to remind us there is much more to this story than what we think we know at the moment.
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An editing oversight? I hadn’t read that. Of course it wasn’t, as the shot has Nathan looking up at it, not just the sky. AND you can hear the plane in the background. That moment is there as a sign that the future and past are somehow colliding.
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Exactly, and those who did not see it, probably commented before seeing enough of the series to understand that. One more reason for reviewers to hold off until they more completely understand. (Though I do enjoy seeing them being ‘fooled’ by the author!)
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I should have said, ‘an editing oversight’. In any case, I think not many would have understood it from first glance … I certainly didn’t. My point is one cannot make early judgments on a creative effort. It takes more than a cursory view to appreciate the author’s choices.
Always, always, give it time to play out. There is usually more there than we initially understand.
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That is very true about those reviews. With it being only six episodes, it is too bad that the reviewers didn’t take the time to see the whole show before posting a review. They certainly had the opportunity, in this instance.
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Of course, I had the advantage of knowing some of this stuff ahead of time. I heard the plane too. And why would Nathan have even looked up if something hadn’t caught his attention. By the way, the jet contrails in the sky this morning as I was mowing took on a whiole new meaning! So glad I a finally able to talk about this a bit. Suntse, hope your DVD copy arrives soon. Kind of nothing so good as Nathan (Colin) on a big screen tv.
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Oh, has yours arrived? How wonderful! Tell us your progress. We are trying to keep from spoiling anything for you. 🙂
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Our Vantage Point is actually somewhere in the far distant future, although we cannot know that until E06. Ashley so skillfully pulls us into Nathan and Charlotte’s present that we cannot maintain that knowledge easily while watching events unfold … and isn’t it better for the audience’s perception that we cannot remain far away and aloof from the unfolding events that are affecting the characters in this story?
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That’s interesting. I would have said our vantage point is from both places, it is just that we are only given clues about the future at first. I’ll have to think about that while I rewatch.
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This is more a matter of my interpretation … not necessarily the only answer. Keeping in mind E06 and the group with the Ouija Board, I think there would be much more to discover if Ashley is given the opportunity.
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There is another question, among many others. I was trying to wait on this, but my mind is stirring and will not quiet just yet.
Pictures of the Lady with the Book of Light were uncovered in the box containing Gabriel’s things. These were drawn by Gabriel … So, Lara has already been to Shepzoy and died there when we begin E01. (?) These drawings were made when Gabriel was alive. He had seen Lara and drawn her, her ghost? Another collision of time and space? Any thoughts?
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As Jen had mentioned on her blog, time is out of synch. You can’t match the past and present chronilogically, and the fun is going back and figuring out which event from the future corresponds to that of the past because they are not in order. So, that was what I was wondering about when I said that the lighting of the bonfire might have started things off. And then that would still work, because if it kicked off the events by touching the future, Lara could then go back to anytime even before the bonfire was lit. Does that make any sense at all? Perhaps I am making a bit too much of the bonfire, but regardless, her visiting Gabriel does not seem out of place.
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I kind of agree about the lighting of the bonfire. Midsummer bonfires are a little older tradition than the current ones that usually occur on Guy Fawkes day. Nathan’s mother has a warning about it. I like the idea in this of time not being entirely lineal. There are actual scientific speculations about the nature of time and how much we don’t really know about it. Then there is the whole multiple somewhat similar universes that may be out there and whether we can touch them at certain places–one reason I saw the standing stones in episode two interesting. And I am okay with no concrete answers. I think Ashley Pharoah is wanting us to just let our imagination take us anywhere it wants.
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Quick response to this before getting back to other priorities (and because I really want to join in!).
Drew’s right…I feel that the time lines are completely out of synch, it’s possible that one of Lara’s sightings of / encounters with Gabriel might be of Gabriel alive, rather than his spirit. That may be how he was able to draw what he saw for Nathan and others to find. That is worth a rewatch to see if that is obvious when knowing what to look for. Of course, I could be completely off-base. But how else would he have seen her, but when alive. But if they were both alive (which is when Lara was carrying the book of light), how would that have been possible?
*head spins*
Ashley has a lot of ‘splainin’ to do.
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All these questions are surely providing a lot of thought for us! I’m not sure anyone recalls the comment of June 30, but wanted to repeat it here now that we are discussing this bending of time. This is also the subject of June 28the article, “The Living and The Dead … Questioning Dimensions of Time and Space.”
The quotation at the end of the article: “Time is not a line, but a dimension, like the dimensions of space. If you can bend space, you can bend time also, and if you knew enough and could move faster than light you could travel backwards in time and exist in two places at once.”
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Suntse, not sure if I actually read that article, but that’s how I see it too. Some kind of connection between Shepzoy, the place, and Nathan’s family. Like a convergence. It has already long been proven that time is relevant and connected to speed. Clocks at the equator run faster. I usually don’t go much for ‘ghost’ stories where just weird things pop in and out. This one is questioning how we see ourselves and our connection to both the past and the future. Just watching a couple episodes I am finding myself something of a fan of Pharoah’s. And, of course, Colin is just so good in this, and I’ve only gotten to two episodes!
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Joan, if you want to scan back to June 28, you can find the article. Or, you can enter ‘dimensions of time’ in the search box to get you there. I hope you can find the time to read it.
I, too, am a fan of Ashley Pharoah and his incredible imagination, all based on possibilities, ‘outside the box’. 🙂
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THE FALL: Here we are reprinting the conversation begun by Drew and Suntse a couple of days ago, giving a place for everyone to join in !
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Suntse, I’m not ignoring you guys! Honest! I just haven’t had a chance to respond. I will this evening. 🙂
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We look forward to it, Jen. We know you are not ignoring us … 🙂 ❤ We are just having trouble staying quiet! Hope we haven't spoiled anything for you.
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Hey, stop ignoring us. 😉
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No, you have not spoiled anything. No worries. 🙂
I’m probably not going to be as eloquent as either of you. 🙂 But here are my thoughts.
I think that the reason Tom asked Stella about why she ran to Paul is because both Gillian and Allan Cubbit were inundated with that question since S2 ended, so Allan figured he might as well get it out of the way right from the get go. Seriously. What it did, besides answer it, was make Tom look whiny. (or petulant, in your words, Suntse 🙂 ) I was also more than a little disappointed with the depiction of Tom. Like….really? But…I also realize that we never knew him well outside of his work environment, where he was all professional and cool and stuff. Well, except for that little foray into Stella’s bed, where we did see a personal side of him…a questioning side, but no indication he was needy. Just curious. 🙂
Well, Ep 1 of S 2 is showing us a new side, and at first glance, I found it wanting. However, I’m in no way going to drop him like a hot potato because he’s whiny. I’m in for the whole ride and I want to see where this side of Tom takes him.
Oh, and about the hair…he’s had a bad day. My hair doesn’t look that good after I’ve been shot either. However, it IS quite different from the Tom we saw at the end of the same day prior to being shot. I was hoping some commitment to continuity would ensure that they did his hair similarly, and we can only hope that they will fix that as the series progresses.
He turns the lights on as he enters the flat from the corridor, but not as he enters the other room, which is at least a sitting room – you can see a couch and chair and a tv. Many flats in the UK have separate sitting rooms, but I found it odd that even though it appears he had already traversed the main part of the flat, why did he toss his keys in there? I wonder if he’s sharing this nice, modern, obviously expensive because look at the view, flat with someone? Or…he just has a separate sitting room and it means nothing. Of course, the best way to indicate that he’s sharing with someone is for him to have said as he’s walked in the door, “I’m home.”. Wouldn’t that have raised our eyebrows! Here’s another thought. Maybe he lives with his parents, and that’s their flat, and that’s his room in their flat!
Nah.
I also really like the doctor, portrayed by Richard Coyle. I am a little puzzled by Paul’s nurse, however – the one that told Stella to get out of Paul’s room…not for any reason other than the fact that she is a spitting image for Paul’s “type”, and I find that odd that they would pick a character and actress that was in that image if they didn’t have a reason for it. So…she’s worth watching. There may be more to her than we know.
The other thing I noticed during a rewatch was that the way Stella was looking at Paul in his hospital bed was very similar to the way she looked at Tom in the hotel bed. Sad, almost. I really wonder if we’re going to find out about her father and the impact he has had on her. I swear Tom and Paul will end up looking like her father did at some important point in her life. I hope we find out.
The old woman at the end was a puzzle, until I realized that she was “nobody” but somebody that Stella could hold on to…only just her hand, but someone she could reach out to, because there was nobody else at the time. That was sad as well. I also wonder if there’s some kind of memory trigger there for Stella.
I feel very sorry for Sally.
When Stella sent DC McNally to her hotel suite to get some of her things, they really stretched that scene out. I fully expected something to come of it, but nothing did. I found that odd. And McNally never even batted an eyelash at the fact that the bed was overly rumpled, nor did she read any of Stella’s notes, or anything. So why play this scene as if it was important.
By the way, Stella was writing notes for a speech or talk she was going to make, it appears. I remember that from my recent rewatch of S1 & S2.
Anyway, those are my comments on Ep1. Kind of rambly, but all I can think of for now.
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Good comments!
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Good, Jen. Gives us even more to ponder! More to watch for!
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I woke up refreshed, and am very glad I did! I sat down to record my first impressions before writing to you. This will likely become a post later on with more additions and grooming. After all, even our little group has not seen it yet. (Thank you FT!) So, here it is. I look forward to sharing with you along the way.
The Fall
S03, E01
The First Tom Anderson scene: My first reaction was disappointment. Colin’s acting skills are clearly superior in conveying these reactions to Stella, but I was questioning Alan Cubitt’s choices for this character. Is he going to be a jealous, petulant boy-toy? “You knew we were both shot, why did you run to him and not to me? You were crying over him.” Etc. There was a glimmer of hope when Tom said, “You appeared “anguished”. Is he pursuing the question of why she is so absorbed with Spector?
If we can put that aside for now and turn to the “story” and its execution, we will return to Tom later.
Extremely impressive episode. The hospital scenes are mesmerizing, both 1st and 2nd time through. Have to say, I like the Dr. directing Spector’s trauma team … Like him a lot, actually. There are many things to observe about this execution of care. Steady, calm, completely controlled, even through mini crises. There was politeness among and toward the team members, acknowledging each by name as they were given assignments. Men and Women alike were given the same weight in the process, never assigning a lesser role to the female contribution. A lot to like and review about the way this was done. Lingering on the aftermath of the trauma room, the left-overs of determined, tension filled moments left me with a sense of unsung pride.
The musical score … superb. Droning tones, steady, keeping the tension alive throughout, while later introducing a subtle heartbeat as Stella enters Spector’s ICU room. It was all very impressive to me and artfully done. His open eyes, real or imagined … Stella’s bedside moments with what we assume was her mother, obviously imagined. The contrast of real and imagined moments … including Spector’s travels through the tunnel, being pulled in two directions … to go or to stay.
Others can sit back and scoff at these devices, calling them out as ordinary, but I cannot join them. These were intelligently used to keep the intended question alive.
Now, back to DS Tom Anderson. This is not the apartment of a simply ambitious detective sergeant! An obviously high elevation, Large windows overlooking the city and a balcony. This all speaks wealth to me. What else do we not know or surmise about this man and his behavior? Intrigue has set in at last about the “who” of Tom Anderson. We are now watching with some excitement and anticipation. 🙂
So, over to you, Drew … you were right !! 🙂 Tom has become more interesting to me!
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I love Richard Coyle and his performance as the head doctor. I had not seen him before but now would like to see him in more. Even though he really doesn’t look like him, he has a Kenneth Branagh feel to him. What a neat character.
I’ve watched Colin’s scenes more than I care to say. First of all, this is not the Tom from last season. Even his hair is different, and what’s up with that? Why screw up continuity like that? Someone mentioned that his hair looks like that because of what he has been through. But unless they put some sort of hat on him, whose hair uncurls from lying on the ground? So, I don’t know why they did that.
I was absolutely shocked when Tom asked why Stella didn’t come to him. I kind of dreamed that Tom would make a big deal out of that, but then realized it was just wishful thinking to make Tom’s relationship with Stella more personal. In reality, I never expected that her going to Paul instead of Tom would ever come up, and that Tom was pretty professional and would just get that she went to Spector because of how injured he was. Now, I could understand him bringing up how overly upset she was, but that is different.
But there is something that I just won’t let go of and that is the idea that Tom manipulated his way on to Stella’s team. And it is a clue at that first crime scene he is at when Stella comments, “Always look up at a crime scene.” Tom should have known better. So, why did he miss that, unless he ignored it on purpose so that he would have a reason to contact Stella.
I think that Tom isn’t just being petulant. I think there might be an obsession going on. He pretty much tests Stella’s responses. That whole thing about his career possibly being over…Just watch that face. He was expecting comfort. He almost looks expectant when he tells her and his face falls when she doesn’t respond the way he wants. Being left at the crime scene, being basically ignored, not getting enough attention from Stella and having to go home alone. They are setting up a buildup of anger in Tom. And hey, whatever keeps him in play in the show, makes me really happy.
Great catch about Tom’s flat. I hadn’t questioned the fact that he has a place that someone in his position probably couldn’t afford. Also, what stood out to me was that he never turned the lights on. What were we not supposed to see? This is cliche, but part of me wonders if there is a wall of pictures of Stella at different crimes scenes.
Anyway, those are my first thoughts.
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Well now, isn’t this fun! … Had the same feelings about Richard Coyle, and started looking up some of his earlier work. I also want to say that all these actors are excellent. Mark out Jonjo O’Neill as Tom Stagg. His exchange with Stella, questioning Rose’s compliance, was completely involving. There doesn’t seem to be a weak link anywhere in the cast. I am in awe of how professional and dedicated the actors in the trauma scene were … it might as well have been an actual event.
I, too, have felt from the beginning that Tom manipulated his way onto Stella’s team. This questioning of her moves at the shooting completely surprised me, and seemed very unworthy of Tom’s professional level as a Detective Sergeant. I stand by my opinion of ‘petulant’, knowing no other words to describe, “why him, not me?”. Of course he could be testing her, but to what purpose with those words? And I felt her caressing his cheek very patronizing, as though he was a boy whose injured feelings needed comforting. It all felt out of character for these two who have had nothing more than a night in bed, no matter how recently.
Speaking of that, let’s watch for the impact of those papers that Gail gathered in Stella’s apartment. I mean to go back later and read again what she was writing. That’s another scene which was quickly overlooked at the time and which now seems to have a larger significance.
I am interested in your comment that they are setting up a buildup of anger in Tom. With that in mind, we are looking again at his reactions as he spoke his own questions and his response to her answers. Yes, we can see the possibility.
I leave you with your creepy idea 🙂 that his flat could contain a wall of pictures of Stella at various crime scenes … acknowledging that, creepy as it is …. it is well within the realm of possibility!
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Over a year ago, we were teased, very briefly, with a poster depicting a double image for Tom Anderson. We questioned it and lingered on it briefly, but time passed and it was left behind as we could find no credible reason for it. Yet time had been taken to produce it and put it in the press packet. So disturbing as it can be to leave the question behind, we moved forward without an answer.
Clever, clever, cleverly done …. here it is more than a year later, and we begin to see a purpose. We have been used! deluded! how delicious! Cubitt has used our penchant for limited attention against us! I love being ‘tricked’ in this way. So something we left behind has resurfaced and promised to chastise us for hasty attention. You have our admiration, sir!
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That photo has remained in my mind and that it tells us that there is more to Tom than we realize. Perhaps that other side of him will be an unsavory charactor, or at least more of the type of dysfunctional character that we are used to on The Fall. He definitely expected more of Stella than she is probably willing to give.
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Aside from Tom Anderson, I return to the story to say I am worried about Rose, the lingering impact on her life, and relationship with her husband. It seems there may not be the time to delve into this, but it is an interesting aspect of this kind of trauma.
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Suntse, have you watched Episode 2 yet?
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Yes, about an hour ago. It was very intense again. I liked it. (Just woke up from a nap, kinda groggy, will get with it soon!) Help me wake my brain up. Any thoughts on DS Anderson, or anything else would be welcome!
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Of course, not much to say about Tom. I expect he will have a bigger role in the next episode. But he still didn’t look very happy. The one thing I noticed was how the camera stayed with him throughout much of the scene. That is telling…but what…what are they trying to tell us?
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He really doesn’t seem happy at all. Perhaps, Drew, its as you said, they are building him up to be angry. And he certainly seemed very angry when asking the surgeon how long before he could get back on the job. Resentment and anger … that’s how I’m reading it. Haven’t any idea where that is supposed to lead.
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Contrary to our wishes, but well in keeping that this conflict is between Stella and Paul, we have noted that the next episode, E03, is the last one where DI Anderson is listed in the cast. 😦
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We definitely know that he is in the show up until episode 5. Here is a link and description of episode 5, along with a very nice photo of Tom. They haven’t posted episode 6 yet.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/proginfo/2016/43/the-fall
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Oh, that’s good news. I was looking at cast listings on IMDb. Thanks for the link. 🙂
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So I asked you that question then went away for a few hours. Sorry! 😀
My first impression is that Paul’s telling the truth. His actions around Olivia seemed very authentic, as well as his puzzlement about what had happened to him. It seemed/s very real. But…I rewatched the scene in Ep 1 where he twitches, and then shortly after opens his eyes and glances around quickly and then closes his eyes again. So now I wonder…did he lay there semi-awake and think for awhile before actually being woken? But even if so, he’s an awfully good actor (Paul, that is) to pull off the complete lack of knowledge of time and place like he did. So I’m torn, but leaning towards it being the truth. That doesn’t make him any less guilty, but it sure puts a twist in the whole thing….which was what was alluded to by both Colin and Jamie before the show aired….that there would be an unexpected twist.
No lines by Colin/Tom…just a couple of looks, and obviously favouring his arm and shoulder. I sure hope we see more of him, where he actually speaks and stuff, in future episodes. And there are synopses of episodes online that indicate that he’ll be in all of the next episodes up to the end. At least that’s what it appears like.
They didn’t fix his hair. But then again, he only has one arm with which to do his hair, so could be covered by that obvious scenario. 😀 Kidding.
Katie is off the wall. What she did to her friend is scary. And…now that Paul doesn’t remember anything past 2006, he won’t know Katie, either. So, if she ever does make it to the hospital to see him, he, theoretically, won’t know who she is. THAT should send her over the edge.
So, I guess we wait and see what happens in the next episode. The trailers I’m seeing are interesting but don’t give a lot away.
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Since not everyone who visits your blog has seen The Fall’s third series, I thought I would comment on your post here, as I will be mentioning spoilers.
First, I just wanted to let you know that Colin didn’t actually get billing over John Lynch. When an actor’s name appears at the end of the credits as “with” or “also starring” it is a special mention. So, he is considered an important actor to the show but not seen as billed below anyone else. However, Colin did get billing over all the other actors except Gillian and Jamie.
Now to the story: I was very disappointed. I felt that rather than a strong plot that explored all the relationships that Cubbitt had set up with hints (no, more than hints) that characters were not what they seemed, he was just building to a shocking ending that left us with lots of questions. In the end, I found that everyone seemed exactly who we thought they were. I really believe that many viewers mistook the shock of the last episode, that finally got them excited about something happening, with a great plot. I wonder if, after letting some time pass, they will continue to feel that way.
I don’t have any questions about Stella. In the end, she was still Stella. Any changes were mostly kept from us. Burns just got more and more agitated and crazed and I am still not sure exactly why, except for a few misteps he took during the series. But that is one I might just have missed. I would have to go back and watch the whole series, and I am not sure I want to do that. One thing that absolutely confused me was when our favorite doctor was sitting with Stella, after she had been attacked, and began asking her questions. This seemed more like a psychiatrist getting into her psyche. Did I miss an episode or two? He seemed to know her much better than we were led to believe. Again, maybe I have forgotten about some scenes between them.
And Paul: I’m not sure what to make of his ending. Why did he ultimately kill himself? Did he ever have amnesia? Maybe he believed all that Stella said to him in that interview and he hated her and himself for it. Or, maybe he just knew it was over and didn’t want to go to prison for the rest of his life. I think they could have killed him off at the end of series two and we wouldn’t have missed much.
As for Tom, I am sad that they didn’t delve more into his character. He went back to being D.S. Tom Anderson and we learned nothing about him…except that man couldn’t get a break (well actually, he did get a break) when it came to his arm.
I realized two things during this show: One, that it is when the camera stays with Colin for reaction shots that we learn much about his characters. His eyes and expressions often tell us more then his words. There were a few times when I expected to see a reaction from Tom, but the camera never went there. So, except for maybe the first episode, we didn’t get much of that. Two, because Colin does not care about the size of his roles, as long as they interest him, his fans deal with something akin to emotional whiplash. Unlike fans of other well-known actors, who see their actor continue to get bigger roles, we find ourselves expecting but not getting that. For Colin it is wonderful and shows a healthy sense of self which allows him to follow his intuition rather than what what is expected of someone with his talent. For us, it is a bit jarring as we long to immerse ourselves into the characters he portrays. We don’t just look forward to watching him in a show, but to meeting another character and seeing what Colin does with that character. We look forward to that with each role and are left wanting when we watch The Fall, Legend and The Huntsman (really left wanting in that instance). After being treated to the rich emotional lives of characters like Nathan, Merlin, Calum and Cathal, we find ourselves automatically expecting that from all of his characters.
Finally, I wonder if we didn’t get more of Tom due to Colin’s filming schedule on TLATD. I’m also curious if Jamie had to come back to film with Colin, because he supposedly finished filming his part before Colin started filming.
And now on to Humans and Leo who we know won’t disappoint.
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The billing … I was referring to the opening credits, which 1st mention Gillian Anderson, then Jamie Dornan, then Colin Morgan, then others, followed by “with John Lynch”. (I do understand what that placement means, but was surprised at the choice … except that it was probably meant to attract the rising number of Colin Morgan fans)
The expectations … setting up expectations for Colin’s characters has always proven to be premature. This makes commenting in advance of the finish always on shaky ground, and something only to be attempted by the fearless. It is likely that some of us will continue to do so, being led hither and yon by marketing ploys (the double image), conjecture, and the desire to see more of his character’s impact on the plot than the writers are willing to give.
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Drew and Jen … are you going to be able to watch Humans tonight? Do we expect it to be available on FT tomorrow? I’ve been really out of it the past three weeks 😦
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I have people over and I thought they might like to watch TLATD for Halloween, but they asked to watch the Cubs game. So, no Colin tonight. Darn it.
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Humans 02.E01 was every bit as wonderful as we could have imagined … filled with new possibilities and daring us to open our minds and hearts. ❤
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It was quite wonderful. I need to watch it again to catch some of the nuances I may have missed during the first viewing…there was so much to take in. It’s certainly going in several different directions…both literally and figuratively. Love the new characters that have been introduced, even the short-lived ones (farewell Radiator…you were pretty cool for the short time we got to know you).
This episode, I think, was to get us back into the picture and to bring us up to speed with our timelines and stories. Love Maxie – he’s more independent, it appears….more confident. Love the experiences that Niska had before returning to the UK. Love the fact that the code didn’t just go out there and hit every synth, as Niska expected…only a few here and there.
So much more to come, and what a joy to see Colin as Leo again! ❤
Can't wait to see Ep. 2. 🙂
And…I guess we're not going to find out what happened to Fred. Nothing said this episode, so I'm going to assume Fred's been swept under the carpet, sadly. I had hoped it would be addressed, just to satisfy curiosity. Oh well. 🙂
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I agree with all you have said. More ‘loves’ to follow: 🙂
Love especially the fact that release of the code defied expectations! Love that these writers continue to take the road less traveled! Our sympathies for the awakening synths have been tapped into with the unnecessary destruction of Radiator. There is so much to take in, so much to entice our curiosity, so much that takes this out of the ordinary. Niska’s pending trial will raise so many interesting questions.
Loving Maxie … how smart to make him the one to introduce the new synths to Leo rather than the other way around. Loved his kind and understanding approach to Hester about Trust, and the wisdom of his answer about Emotions.
And, never fear, we will see Fred again. Another admirable quality of these writers is that they don’t answer all our questions at once … like their decision about the code, questions are dripped out here and there, challenging early assumptions and seeking to stretch our patience. They trust their audience … how refreshing!
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I’ll second that. What a joy to see Leo again.
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Yes, it is a joy to see Leo back. Colin, once again, has a role which needs his special magic.
I’m finding it interesting that Niska is having a crisis of conscience. She is interested in this new iteration of synth and apparently feels a responsibility to helping them find their way, which has compelled her to seek Laura’s help in making this new human/synth an issue for the justice system in order to bring it public. Leo is also feeling very committed to helping them, though this is not a new passion for him. He, always feeling this kind of responsibility toward his family, is now finding the same drive within himself for the new synths. Mia, however, seems less inclined to embrace helping them in the same way because of her concern to keep Leo and Maxie safe.
All in all we are being introduced to challenging concepts and intriguing story lines. This will be another huge success!
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So many story threads, leading us here and there, all part of the bigger picture. Will we be talking about this one as we did the first? I hope so … there is so much here … the individual stories, and the underlying content as represented by Niska’s comment: “You want me to be more like a human … casually cruel to those next to you while crying over pictures of people you’ve never met…”
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It’s been a long week of waiting, and still have to wait until tomorrow morning … but am especially interested in what happens with Karen.
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Sadly, it appears there is more human in the ‘humans’ code than we bargained for, including greed, cruelty, and ambition.
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Episode 5 !! Remarkable, Amazing, Indescribable. Struck dumb, without words. I am actually shaking. So much information, so much tension, so much emotion, introduction to even more incredible possibilities. Where does one even start :???!! ❤ There can be no criticism of this episode by anyone with a love for intelligence and excellence !
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No criticism here.
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Ah, so much to absorb. 🙂 When I finished Ep 5, I found myself tossed back in my chair, a bit gobsmacked at everything that was thrown at us in this one. Up ’til now, we have been taken along on a slow ride, knowing we were going somewhere, but not sure where. Well, we may not be at our destination, but wow, the trip is getting exciting. 🙂
So many questions from just this episode.
What will happen to Anita? Will she go to the Hawkins, because now, that is all she knows? Or, will she run down on charge and be picked up by Qualia? Oh God, I hope not. And…where did she “send” Mia?
What will happen to Niska? The one place she can’t go back to is the Hawkins. So, does she look for Leo?
Where is Maxie staying? What is he doing with any synths he rescues? (I like the colourful-hair synth – Flash – he befriends! I hope she sticks around!)
Will Leo ever find out what Hester has done with the two humans? If so, what then? Will their relationship develop further or will it end suddenly? (I’m hoping suddenly, because I don’t like her and he’s going to get hurt. He doesn’t trust humans. What happens to him when he finds out he can’t trust all synths either. 😦 )
We know from future photos that Mattie finds Leo (or the other way around…she sent out signals to nudge him). I hope they work together. Leo needs a stabiliser. That could be Mattie.
Will Athena find a suitable synth for her V? Will she find Leo? Maybe she finds Anita!
The child synths!! What about those! The potentially perfect children.
So much to cram into JUST 3 more episodes. I can’t wait! 🙂 I’m very much looking forward to the next 3 weeks, and am awaiting the official announcement of a third Season, because with everything that is happening, how can there not be?!
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